Uninstall and Program Conflicts

[sparkyguy]

Sorry for the length of post, but this gets involved and at this point has me very confused.

I have an uninstall conflict that is kind of like a chicken-and-egg situation.
I have Rollback 9.1 ver 2695045130 on an XP Pro SP3 system.

I no longer need my imaging program (Macrium Reflect) because it hangs. Essentially I don't need it with Rollback anyway. Therefore, I attempted to uninstall Reflect, which appeared to go without incident. However, when I reboot, I'm stuck in the endless re-boot cycle. As soon as the Windows splash screen starts to load (the one with the crawler-bar) it gets to about 50% brightness, then spontaneously re-boots over and over. Luckly, I can hit HOME and grab an old Rollback snapshot from a time before the uninstall and get Windows to load OK, but the whole mess makes me very nervous and I'd like to get it cleaned up.

I have not added any additional boot mgr apps, nor have I enabled any of the "system recovery" apps that are available with disk imaging programs.

Since Rollback can load before the OS, I assume part of it must reside in the MBR. Therefore, I'm very hesitant to try any of the "solutions" I've found on other forums for fixing similar endless "re-boot" problems. Most aren't applicable with how Rollback functions anyway. Many suggest replacing the MBR and I fear this will wipe out Rollback entirely, or trash my entire drive (1.5 TB with 3 x 500 GB partitions). I'm not particularly worried about losing my Rollback HISTORY as long as I can keep the existing snapshot functional. I've considered de-installing Rollback first, then de-install Reflect. However, if the removal goes bad I wouldn't have an old snapshot to reload. I can't use Reflect to image the current snapshot because it hangs when loading (which is why I wanted to remove it in the first place). Therefore, I can't even image the "existing" snapshot. I've considered the Reflect Linux boot disk, and make a bit-for-bit image. But this will create a full-partition image that will be GINORMOUS. Worse, I don't have that much back-up storage space available. Plus, I don't know if I could even restore the image since it would be created with Linux. I don't know how/if Rollback will act because it will still be installed on the physical drive.

At this point, I'm stuck between a rock-and-a-hard place. How can I clean up without trashing everything???

[HDS-Jacob]

Hello sparkyguy,

Feel free to submit a ticket to the Facebook page under the support tab Horizon DataSys | Facebook or at http://support.horizondatasys.com and let's see if we can get you some suggestions here.

Best,
Jacob

[nexstar]

Do NOT be tempted to try any MBR solutions unless you want to end up with your system at the point you first installed RollBack!

Is the working snapshot you've restored to further back than you'd prefer to be? Don't forget that, even though you may not be able to boot into the problem snapshot, you can still recover data from it. Would that help to get you back to where you were?

Other options are to try and fix the non-booting snapshot. Can you get into safe mode?

Graham

[sparkyguy]

Thks Jacob w/HDS, I'll do so today.

Nexstar, I don't have a snapshot old enough to go before the installation of my imaging pgm since it would be several years ago. I can easily restore to any recorded snapshot taken BEFORE I attempted the de-install of my imaging pgm. That is what I'm working with now. My problem is NOT that I can't get an older snapshot to load, it s that I can't get it to boot AFTER the uninstall of the imaging program. To verify if I could boot into Safe Mode, I would need to go thru a complete imaging de-install again, then try a reboot into SAFE Mode. Since things are flakey at the moment, I'm hesitant to even try. Something that is critical to the Windows boot process is getting removed during the uninstall of the imaging pgm.

I tried some postings on the imaging pgm forum, but they are "brain-dead" about Rollback. When I mentioned I also used Rollback, the responses immediately are "remove Rollback, then do an uninstall of the imaging program. Well DUH!! . . .If I do that, I'll probably be dead-meat and have an entire HD that is non-functional. That's why I'm (desparately) back to the HDS-Rollback forum.

If I was confident that I could get a good, functional image of the HD, I would do so, and then dive into searching the registry for remains of the imaging pgm. However, since Rollback does significant things outside of the OS (Windows), that is where things quickly get messy trying to figure what is actually screwing up what.

Another way of saying it is,
I suspect the uninstall of the imaging program is the root of the problem, NOT Rollback. What I don't know is how much I can try and "restore" a bootable condition to the HD since I already have Rollback installed without messing it up further.

[nexstar]

I found a link here to a standalone uninstaller for Macrium Reflect provided by the developers so it might be worth trying that in your current snapshot to see if it behaves better.

Failing that, you could leave it installed and manually disable it from running via the registry and/or msconfig entries if you are comfortable with that. Presumably it only causes you problems when it is actually backing up?

You can still create an image of your current snapshot from within RB using a different imaging program. If you haven't got a working image then that would be a sensible move anyway.

Graham

[Froggie]

Hi SparkGuy! Please don't take the following as a roadmap but use the discussion as food for thought.

If you really think UnINSTALLing your imager is affecting Rollback, AND you can get yourself to a good Rollback snapshot (with the imager still installed), you might consider unINSTALLing Rollback at that point, and following that, try uninstalling your imager. If your imager uninstalls correctly, you're home free... you can re-install Rollback and be happy as a clam.

If the imager uninstall causes the same type of failure you're seeing now, the possible MBR rebuild being suggested in the other forums may fix the standard booting problem. When that's back in the proper shape, re-install Rollback and you're home free again.

Now I know doing all this without a good backup is quite risky, but possibly an image of your system, with Rollback uninstalled and your imager still installed, using not your windows-based imager but the Linux-based imager on its recovery disk, would make you feel better about continuing. My guess is the recovery disk will work just fine since most don't use any part of the windows-based version installed on your system (they work on all kinds of systems). If this is successful, now you can continue to try and uninstall the imager on the current Rollback-less system. If it's lucky enough to work, you're home free (yet again), if not, you have your image to restore to.

If this is all confusing I'll try and clear it up (in my head it works but I may not be writing it well enough).

[Froggie]

Originally Posted by sparkyguy

I've considered the Reflect Linux boot disk, and make a bit-for-bit image. But this will create a full-partition image that will be GINORMOUS. Worse, I don't have that much back-up storage space available. Plus, I don't know if I could even restore the image since it would be created with Linux.

The fact that it's a LUNUX-based disk has nothing to do with whether it can save/restore Windows partitions/disk. Many products' recovery disks are Linux-based... the only disadvantage is that their dialogue can sometimes be a bit cryptic.

Usually, most of what the product can do under Windows, it can do via its rescue disk (compressed SAVE and RESTORE)... definitely worth a look.

And don't use it with Rollback installed... different discussion. Use it with Rollback unINSTALLed and Macrium Reflect still installed. If successful, you have your image save and now you can try unINSTALLing Macrium Reflect WITHOUT Rollback on the system.

[Owl]

Hi there Sparkyguy

Originally Posted by sparkyguy

I no longer need my imaging program (Macrium Reflect) because it hangs. Essentially I don't need it with Rollback anyway.

I would take issue with that. Notwithstanding that the imaging program hangs, you do still need some kind of imaging program to provide backups. By making a forensic image of an RBRx protected disc you get a backup of all the snapshots.

Therefore, I attempted to uninstall Reflect, which appeared to go without incident. However, when I reboot, I'm stuck in the endless re-boot cycle.

How did you uninstall? Windows uninstaller, or something provided in the Reflect suite? If you try again, use a good clean-up tool (eg CCleaner) to scan the registry etc BEFORE rebooting.

Since Rollback can load before the OS, I assume part of it must reside in the MBR. Therefore, I'm very hesitant to try any of the "solutions" I've found on other forums for fixing similar endless "re-boot" problems. Most aren't applicable with how Rollback functions anyway. Many suggest replacing the MBR and I fear this will wipe out Rollback entirely, or trash my entire drive (1.5 TB with 3 x 500 GB partitions).

These solutions are completely inappropriate in this case. The fact that you can still boot into a previous snapshot proves there is nothing wrong with the MBR. Replacing the MBR would kill RBRx and lose your snapshot history (unless you replaced it with the RBRx image).

I've considered de-installing Rollback first, then de-install Reflect.

I don't see as that would get you anywhere.

However, if the removal goes bad I wouldn't have an old snapshot to reload.

The whole point of the RBRx safety net.

At this point, I'm stuck between a rock-and-a-hard place. How can I clean up without trashing everything???

1. Making a forensic image (including MBR) will preserve your system state and provide the ultimate safety net.

2. Having a known working RBRx snapshot means you can play to your heart's content - when it all goes pear shaped you just wind back and try again.

3. Do you HAVE to remove Reflect? Can't you just turn it off?

4. Use a utility like CCleaner to remove and then scan the registry for errors BEFORE trying a reboot.

[sparkyguy]

Owl,
Thanks for the responses, I appreciate the time. I've abridged some of what I've tried (since it's so lengthy already) but let me try to clarify a bit.

Over the past several years, I've had (and successfully used) both Macrium Reflect and Acronis True Image) for drive backup & restore. For the moment, I'm trying to remove ALL traces of both so that I can do a clean install of Reflect. TIH 2001 has a number of nasty issues, so removed it several weeks ago. When I found issues with the current install of Macrium Reflect (it would hang during a Windows image process) I decided to remove it as well and try to do a clean Reflect re-install to see if it would correct the problem. (Ultimately, I plan to still keep Macrium Reflect for disaster-recovery imaging of my current snapshot.) For uninstalling, I've tried the following: Revo uninstaller, standard Windows Add-Remove Programs uninstaller, plus BOTH Acronis and Macrium "dedicated removal utilities" to remove all traces of both installations. As you've suggested I also use CCleaner and MaceCraft jv16 Powertools to scan the registry for scraps left over (I suspected they might have left-over scraps in the registry). Unfortunately, the results are always the same . . . endless reboot problem.

I don't HAVE to remove Reflect, but the current installation does NOT function. Neither did my old copy of True Image. I suspect the underlying problem is common to both. Therefore, I'd like to uninstall & reinstall them both to try for a CLEAN install of Reflect only.

I hope my goal makes more sense now.

I realize that a simple uninstall of Rollback should NOT crash the HD. But once I do remove it, I've given up ALL ability to return to an earlier functional snapshot since ALL Rollback history would be deleted. Next, since neither imaging program will function properly (at the moment), I can't create a "safety-net" backup image. If I uninstall Rollback, and THEN run the dedicated clean-up utilities from the imaging software and I'm STILL left with re-boot hell, . . . I'm basically screwed with no way of returning. THAT is my concern.

I thinking the best alternative (at the moment) is to launch the Linux imaging CD from either one of the programs (I own licensed copies of both), and do a Linux-based Image of the entire HD (3x500 GB partitions). My only concern is that I'm not POSITIVE the HD would at least be bootable if I needed to do an image-restore. I don't mind the effort of uninstalling and reinstalling Rollback and losing old snapshot history if the restore image would be USABLE. However, I don't have a spare 1.5TB drive to test it on. Can you (or anyone) verify if a restored image will still boot to Windows if it was created from a Rollback-protected HD?

I'm willing to give things a shot as long as I know I'm not leaving myself with no way of return. This has gotten incredibly difficult to explain.

I see Jacob/HDS has again suggested I send a report ticket. I did so this afternoon. Thanks for any assistance in advance.

[nexstar]

Just taking a pace backwards. As you've tried such a range of uninstallers with the same result, it seems that the program probably has uninstalled but the process itself has left behind something which Windows chokes on when it reboots. Can you go back to the non-booting snapshot and turn off automatic rebooting from the F8 menu. You will, hopefully, then get an error displayed on rebooting which might give some pointers as to what the problem is.

I have to say that my personal preference would be not to uninstall RB at this stage without an image to restore. However, there is no reason why an image made in your working snapshot would not boot. It will not have RB installed and you will obviously only have the current state of the system but if you have the capacity to make that image then I would do it before doing anything else.

Graham