Huge snapshot after Skype

[viperskunk]

Hi,
I have read many informative posts on this forum regarding how RRx uses HD space/memory etc. However, the following scenario and questions confound me, although they might actually have a simple enough answer and workaround.

I took a baseline snapshot on my 500 GB HD. The size of the baseline was 333 MB (it is as is supposed to be - 0.07%).
Thereafter I deleted a folder from my desktop and I took another snapshot immediately. The size of the 2nd snapshot of 40 MB. After that all I did was Skype for a couple of hours with my girlfriend. And then I took a third a snapshot. More than a 1 GB!!

Questions:
1) Why upon deleting a folder (of size roughly 15-20 MB) would the size of a snapshot increase by 40 MB. Since the size was small relative to my HD space, I would not have worried about it. But since I am posting here anyway, I just wanted to clarify.

2) How/why does RRx increase its shapshot size by a gig when all I have done is use Skype? In my extremely uniformed-about-RRx opinion, I would assume that video chat somehow manages to make RRx believe that something is changing in the HD itself. Why would that happen? Is there a way to use Skype without consuming so much space?
No data as such seems to be changing in the HD itself. Or is it?

Thank you in advance.
Regards.

[Owl]

The answer to 1 I'm not totally sure about, but you need to understand that the total imaging capacity is distributed around the snapshots and not concentrated in one snapshot.

As far as your Skype issue is concerned, it would not surprise me at all if there were temporary buffer files occupying space. RBRx does not care about what files are (except the Windows swap file), it protects them anyway (not sure but there might be a way to exclude some, the Temporary Internet Files folder would be a good candidate).

[viperskunk]

Originally Posted by Owl

As far as your Skype issue is concerned, it would not surprise me at all if there were temporary buffer files occupying space. RBRx does not care about what files are (except the Windows swap file), it protects them anyway (not sure but there might be a way to exclude some, the Temporary Internet Files folder would be a good candidate).

Thank you, Owl. Upon reading your response, I did the following. I used CCleaner, and deleted files from the temporary internet files folder (and even then it was only about 98 MB). Then took another snapshot. Deleted the 1 GB snapshot. Then defragged the snapshots. From what I gather, the snapshot size after the defrag should have decreased, since the original data contained in the snapshots was also deleted.

But, nope, now its 1.4 GB is size! What to do now?

[Froggie]

Greetings, VS! You must realize that there is a whole Windows file system behind those 20mB of file content you deleted. There are FATs (File Allocation Tables), MFTs (Master File Table), Directories, etc. that get changed even for the deletion of a very small files. The amount in use does not correspond to the file content being manipulated. 40mB of changes is not bad for a 20mB deletion Remember, these are changes, not necessarily just additions or deletions.

The SKYPE thing is unusual... it almost sounds like something is recording your conversation (I don't think SKYPE can do that). Skype's buffers are never that large and it surely doesn't leave much laying around. Check you file size consumption BEFORE and AFTER a lengthy SKYPE call... sounds fishy to me.

[viperskunk]

Originally Posted by Froggie

Greetings, VS! You must realize that there is a whole Windows file system behind those 20mB of file content you deleted. There are FATs (File Allocation Tables), MFTs (Master File Table), Directories, etc. that get changed even for the deletion of a very small files. The amount in use does not correspond to the file content being manipulated. 40mB of changes is not bad for a 20mB deletion Remember, these are changes, not necessarily just additions or deletions.

The SKYPE thing is unusual... it almost sounds like something is recording your conversation (I don't think SKYPE can do that). Skype's buffers are never that large and it surely doesn't leave much laying around. Check you file size consumption BEFORE and AFTER a lengthy SKYPE call... sounds fishy to me.

Froggie,
First allow me to thank you for a certain pdf guide you wrote a while back about imaging with IFW. I just chanced upon it, and would like to say its only slightly less important than global warming.

The partition table etc. explanation makes sense.

As for skype, I have had many lengthy conversations over skype, and never noticed any changes on my free space in windows explorer. Even before i installed RRx (I understand windows explorer would be probably inaccurate only after RRx install, as it does not see hidden stuff that RRx sees and manages. But before RRx install it should show fairly accurately). And I have never seen an increase or decrease of 1-2 GBs after/during Skype conversations.
Also, I am aware of Skype recording software out there like Pamela for Skype which record things; but I have never used any of those. And I also dont think skype saves any video buffer stuff. I dont know for sure, of course. Thus this post.

Also, I wanted ask as an aside if the space it shows on RRx window the snapshot is taking (say 1 GB) is actually the size of the snapshot itself or the data it is holding onto on the HD. I believe it is the latter, but just wanted to confirm.

Thanks again.

[viperskunk]

Originally Posted by Owl

The answer to 1 I'm not totally sure about, but you need to understand that the total imaging capacity is distributed around the snapshots and not concentrated in one snapshot.

As far as your Skype issue is concerned, it would not surprise me at all if there were temporary buffer files occupying space. RBRx does not care about what files are (except the Windows swap file), it protects them anyway (not sure but there might be a way to exclude some, the Temporary Internet Files folder would be a good candidate).

Owl, after your response, I cleaned out the temporary internet files folder with CCleaner. It only showed 100 MB or so. Not 1 GB.
Where do you think I should look to see where the temporary buffer files from Skype might be?
And after cleaning out the temporary internet files, I took another snapshot, moved to it, and then deleted the previous 1 GB snapshot. Then I defragged the snapshots, thinking the size would be reduced, at least a little. But whoa! now it is 1.4 GB!
What to do now?

[Froggie]

Originally Posted by viperskunk

Also, I wanted ask as an aside if the space it shows on RRx window the snapshot is taking (say 1 GB) is actually the size of the snapshot itself or the data it is holding onto on the HD. I believe it is the latter, but just wanted to confirm.

Following a SNAPSHOT DEFRAG operation in Rollback, the snapshot sizes represent the DELTA (or changes) from the previous snapshot... not just additions and/or subtractions. Rollback snapshots are based on the Parent/Child relationship.

[wvbill]

I have an XP system with RollBack protecting a 500GB drive. I take daily snapshots at first boot.

These snapshots are often 1.0 GB or more. I have been trying for weeks to find out why: no defrags, no file wiping, clear browsing cache on close. etc. Typical use is Word, Excel, internet browsing -- nothing unusual -- I do not use skype.

I have plenty of disk space and system performance is not degraded; so maybe I should not be concerned, yet it is puzzling.

I've had RollBack installed for over a year and it has performed flawlessly.

I am very curious to see what comes out of your investigation and to read comments of the senior members.

Bill

[Owl]

We do hear these stories from time to time, but I don't think we've ever got to the bottom of it. The usual advice is make sure you have restore points and defragging turned off.

Horizon would need to take an interest and work with a sufferer to root it out.

[viperskunk]

Originally Posted by Owl

We do hear these stories from time to time, but I don't think we've ever got to the bottom of it. The usual advice is make sure you have restore points and defragging turned off.

Horizon would need to take an interest and work with a sufferer to root it out.

Both are turned off. I have not messed around too much since. Still the snapshots are pretty huge.