Would it be prudent to un-install RB before restoring from image?

[tubby]

I currently have RB ver. 9.1

I would like to image my hardrive onto an external drive to address any future hardware problem. -Now that my hopes and dreams have been shattered as to Horizon Data Systems position on Rollback Rx ver. 10, I guess buying Drive Cloner Rx is probably the best choice for the "non-pro" I understand only the "current state" of PC will work (all snaps will be lost upon actual restoring with the image) and I am OK with that.

I have heard that Rollback Rx should be UN-INSTALLED from the hard drive PRIOR to restoring using the image. -My fear is that if I get a BSOD and because Rollback Rx is still "in there" somewhere, a sucessful restore operation will get complicated (with fixing MBR or having to wipe clean the affected hard drive) I was just hoping that the current ver of Drive Cloner Rx is a bit more "user friendly" than ATI, Paragon, IFW or others.

No need to direct me to past posts. This imaging "roadblock" gets complicated. The basic question is "Is it a good idea to insure Rollback is not present on the "sick" drive when attempting the restore via my image?

Any thoughts?

Tubby

[Froggie]

Tubby, it's complicated There are lots of issues... was the image a HOT or COLD one, what imager was used, etc.

In your case, the safest thing to do would be to unINSTALL Rollback AT THE CURRENT SYSTEM STATE. I emphasize that 'cause Rollback offers you the ability to uninstall at whatever snapshot you wish. Be careful with this... the DEFAULT is the BASELINE, not the CURRENT SYSTEM STATE. You need to select the CURRENT SYSTEM STATE during the unINSTALL process to make sure it's kept that way after the unINSTALL.

If you do this first, then it matters not what imager you use or whether you use HOT or COLD imaging... you'll have the image of the system as it was after you unINSTALLED Rollback.

Another suggestion would be that after Rollback is unINSTALLED and before you image, you should completely defrag any partitions Rollback will be protecting when you reINSTALL Rollback. Thhis is a great time to get lots of system housekeeping done.

Hope this helps!

[tubby]

In the case of surviving/resolving the dreaded BSOD, My fear is that Rollback's contribution to the MBR/first-sector conflicting with the Imaging software's contribution during the restore process.

It seems to me that there would be a time when elements of BOTH products would reside in the MBR/first sector at the same time possibly messing up the restore since they BOTH tinker with the boot-up process.

Now, I guess I could keep a clean/never used hardrive of the same size handy "just in case" or possibly have some sort of software that "wipes" the hard drive clean (but then I fear the "Wipe/Clean" software would tinker with the MBR as well.....now I would have 3 programs in the MBR!)

-Or, perhaps I worry too much!

Remember Froggie, it was you who coined the MBR a "Wild West" show!

Tubby

[Froggie]

Originally Posted by tubby

In the case of surviving/resolving the dreaded BSOD, My fear is that Rollback's contribution to the MBR/first-sector conflicting with the Imaging software's contribution during the restore process.

You are absolutely right to worry about that issue. That's why I say unINSTALL RB prior to imaging. RB will restore the MBR that it replaced when it unINSTALLs itself.

If you want to use an imager with RB installed, do your due diligence and choose one that doesn't muck up the MBR (IFW for instance)... some do, some don't, don't know about Drive Cloner. Acronis will if you have it install that special automatic restore mechanism the "Acronis Secure Zone." Don't know about any of the others... there's tons of them that are adequate for imaging and not messing with the MBR, just check them out.

If your plan is to always COLD image, any will do when you use their created BOOT disk for imaging... none of the COLD imaging BOOT disks that I know of ever mess with the MBR. You can always install the imager on a non-RB system, produce the off-line BOOT disk then unINSTALL the imager and reINSTALL RB. That should work fine for COLD imaging.

Originally Posted by tubby

-Or, perhaps I worry too much!

You should worry, but if you investigate your imagers, I'm sure you'll find one that's just fine for your level of justified paranoia

Originally Posted by tubby

Remember Froggie, it was you who coined the MBR a "Wild West" show!

Due diligence, Tub... due diligence. There are many threads here that discuss successful backing up of RB systems, and, of course, many successes in COLD imaging a non-RB system. That's why I suggest unINSTALLING RB prior to imaging... probably the most trouble free method of saving an important system configuration for disaster recovery.

You should also install the current update of RB. It purports to have solved the licensing issues dealing with lots of unINSTALLs followed by reINSTALLs, a problem many have had on these forums.

And remember... Never COLD IMAGE a system with RB installed. If you don't do ALL the disk sectors (most imagers DEFAULT to only the "used" disk sectors), you will wind up with only your RB baseline installation, NOT your current system state. If you COLD image a non-RB system using the imagers DEFAULTs you will get the current system state.

[tubby]

"If your plan is to always COLD image, any will do when you use their created BOOT disk for imaging... none of the COLD imaging BOOT disks that I know of ever mess with the MBR."



Froggie, this was the part I was unsure of. Thank you! I will sleep a tad bit more soundly tonight!

[Dagrev]

I don't know if it will help or not but I also use Acronis True Image (along with RBRx) and they say to remove any other restore/rollback software before restoring an image. (I don't recall the exact wording.) Fortunately I've never had to restore one as RBRx has always done the job for me, but I keep reminding myself to install it if I ever need to restore an image.

[tubby]

How can one remove Rollback Rx from a harddrive when a BSOD occurs? If ATI (or others) demand that RB is removed in order to restore safely, my concern is that RB would still reside in my "sick" harddrive. I would be unable to remove RB due to the BSOD condition.

Froggie's point, if I understand correctly, is that as long as the original image was created properly (no Rollback Rx installed) then using the Imaging softwares "boot" disk technique would (I guess) "write-over" RB's contribution to the MBR/first sector and all would be well. I hope I have this right!

Then, one would re-install Rollback Rx and go on with our day!

I am reluctant to test/experiment with such concepts on the family computer which (right now) is runnig fine. I should really get a "Test" PC in case my perspective on such powerful software is flawed. -I was really hoping Horizon Data Systems would come through with Rollback ver 10.0


Tubby

[Froggie]

T, I'll try and keep this as short as possible.

If Rollback is uninstalled from your system, your MBR will be whatever state it was prior to the installation of Rollback (Rollback captures this MBR status at installation <filename = 128.dat in Rollback's program folder> and rewrites it at unINSTALLATION). If you then use any imaging tool that includes the imaging of the MBR (most do, but check for sure), your saved image will include a pre-Rollback MBR, probable a pre-Rollback Track 0 (most save Track 0 also), and your entire non-Rollbacked system configuration.

If your Rollback-enabled system blows up for some reason (most likely it won't be Rollback's fault) and refuses to let you back in (BSOD or otherwise) but gives you access to the Rollback CONSOLE, use the CONSOLE to Rollback to a previous snapshot. If the Rollback CONSOLE is inoperative and an early BSOD occurs or possibly just a black screen, it's time to reload a saved image.

During the off-line RESTORE process of almost all of the imagers, there's usually an option to restore the MBR and/or Track 0 along with your system image (remember... they were saved in the image). That's not usually the DEFAULT so you'll have to find and SET the option(s) before restoring. If you select to restore your MBR and/or Track 0 along with your system image, the RESTORE process will write over any and all active areas that Rollback may have left behind (MBR, Track 0, CONSOLE code, executables, etc.). The restoration process will also most likely write over Rollback's snapshot database and all the disk sectors involved in that process (they're only regular disk sectors that are now being reused during the RESTORE operation).

With the above process, you can be sure that no Rollback "goodies" will jump up and "byte" you in the future

[tubby]

If you select to restore your MBR and/or Track 0 along with your system image, the RESTORE process will write over any and all active areas that Rollback may have left behind (MBR, Track 0, CONSOLE code, executables, etc.).
-Froggie

Very nicely put Froggie. It is rare to find a decent "wordsmith" to bridge technical "gaps" between experts and we members of the "unwashed masses"! (who buy the PC's in the first place!)

-I now feel (fairly) comfortable making my first image as soon as I buy an Imaging product. Looks like Horizon has a sweet deal this weekend on their own imager, Drive Cloner Rx. I have to think it will work if I follow your
sage wisdom! -I will investigate the "boot" by external disk and the MBR restore features I will need.

Tubby

[nexstar]

Tubby, just another route you might like to consider depending on how the budget and/or frame of mind is feeling.

I'm a great one for imaging and would agree with the good advice given by Froggie here. However, as an addition to my arsenal of gadgets, I am currently waiting for a Cavalry Retriever to arrive here in the UK from the US. This is a docking station for 2 hard drives which also allows you to clone one drive to another.

These are pretty commonplace devices now and I have had a similar one which I bought quite cheaply in the UK about 6 months ago. The drawback with my current one though is that it will only copy used sectors and so won't clone a RB drive including the snapshots. There are others out there which will do all sectors but the Cavalry (did someone mention the Wild West? ) device was very reasonably priced in comparison and has been getting good reviews.

The benefit of my old docking station of course is that it should be quicker cloning most drives because it isn't copying the unused sectors but if you want something to produce a working RB setup then it is a pretty simple way of doing it.

The downside is the cost and the fact that you will need a spare drive of equal or greater capacity as the original. The upside is that you don't even need a computer to do the copying and you can test if it worked ok by connecting the cloned drive and firing up the PC. No heart in the mouth moments when you have restored the image and hope to see that Windows (or RB) logo appear .

Just a thought and I should say I can't say just how well it works as it hasn't arrived yet!

Graham