Negative Press - Is It Justified?

[Owl]

There have been a lot of threads and posts from two users in particular who have reported bad early experiences with RollbackRX and very bad communication with Horizon DataSys when trying to resolve their issues. As a long(ish) user myself and veteran (!) resident of this forum I am taking it upon myself to try to balance out the negative vibes.

I came to RbRX following not just a bad experience with another product, but a disasterous one. I was seduced into installing Comodo Time Machine free from a magazine cover disc. I liked the idea of what it purported to do (the same as RbRX). The problem came when (I believe) my disk filled up with snapshots and then it crashed, trashing my system unrecoverably and I had to rely on an old back-up to get going again.

While investigating the problem I discovered RbRX, and that CTM had ripped off an earlier version and there were a lot of unhappy people in the same boat as me with it. I still liked the concept though, so I decided to give RbRX a go and eventually went on to buy it.

The only problem I have had (an old build of 9.1) over 18 months is when it is not at all happy when the disk gets full - but at least it hasn't crashed the way CTM did. If I were to recommend one area for the development team to improve I would say look at the behaviour when the snapshot space is close to running out, and provide useful user alerts and some kind of fail-safe mode while telling the user exactly what options are available to relieve the situation.

(Incidentally: my approach to the running out of space scenario is to roll back a few snapshots to a proven state - not the current state in case there are some latent problems - and then re-baseline to that state. You take the hit of losing the most recent system updates, but recover all the snapshot space to go forward from a tested nearly-current system. My second recommendation for the development team would be to provide a re-baseline operation to an intermediate snapshot WITHOUT destroying more recent snapshots - this should be possible.)

I have learned from experience on this Forum that the development team is particularly uncommunicative, but we users plug that gap as a self-help group. It is a reasonable strategy from software developers to avoid spending loads of time supporting users if an unpaid community of enthusiasts will do it for them, but maybe they take it too far in this case. I don't use Facebook or Twitter so I don't know what information gets posted there - I understand it is very little. The community sometimes come up with detailed technical questions which rarely get an answer, but at the same time I wonder how much of a clue competitors would gain if we did receive complete answers to those questions.

In summary, I have had RbRX 9.1 installed since I tested and then bought it. It has saved my *** on several occasions reverting from a bum software install, provides a quick way of testing something and then erasing all traces, and the snapshot history has enabled me to trace the point at which something went wrong and helped identify what it was and how to fix it. It is by far the quickest way to recover a working state after a software event trashes Windows - and for anybody who has real life to contend with rather than spend days (as has happened before) trying to rebuild a broken Windows it is a life-changer.

I don't update unless I have to (what ain't broke, don't waste time fixing and then have to waste more time fixing the unexpected consequences), have never uninstalled to do a clean-up cycle, and let the real enthusiasts on the Forum do the trail blazing. For me, RbRX is a no-brainer.

The recent problems have one feature in common: Solid State Drives. To me, this comes under the category "trail blazing". It is unfortunate these people were early adopters, without realising or wishing to be early adopters, and their experience with support from Horizon has been (apparently) inadequate. Unfortunately there was insufficient experience within the Forum to help them either.

[aladdin™]

Thank you for such a nice thread. Even after my experiences with Rollback Rx, I am still a loyal customer, but I wonder how long this will last.

Many thanks and kindest regards,

aladdin.

[runedog]

Thank you for that Owl, it is appreciated.

I would also like to say that Comodo Time Machine has now been taken off the market by Comodo due to the problems it has caused and I believe they are taking it back to the drawing board before re-releasing a stable product.

Also, HD have decided to offer me the $69 refund BUT, at this point in time I seems stuck with the 'useless' unopened backup CD(s)!

[nexstar]

Nice post, Owl .

Just specifically concerning your running out of space issue. Does the 'Delete oldest snapshot when free space is less than ***' not kick in for you or have you tried increasing the level at which it kicks in?

On your main point, I'm probably not alone here in being frustrated when new users with problems can't seem to get responses in a reasonable period of time. All software has bugs and potential conflicts with other software which may be installed and developers just can't hope to cover every scenario. However, it is how you respond to those problems which is the real test.

If RollBack were a word processor and it didn't run or displayed in the wrong language etc. then it would be a minor inconvenience to users but not, mostly, mission critical. With RollBack though, when something goes wrong it tends to go wrong big time and people need answers quickly because their system may well not be booting at all by this stage.

I think aladdin's problem came about after he was sent a link to an older version of RB which conflicted with some part of his system whereas the demo he'd installed was ok. This was then compounded by the seemingly less than robust activation mechanism. These two things should have been sorted out quickly and reflect badly on the software when it really comes down to support.

Runedog had some quite unusual conflicts and then some issues in getting a full refund. The only possible thing I'd say in HDS' defence here is that they do provide a fully working demo and, not unreasonably, would expect users to have tried RB out for free before committing to a purchase. (@runedog - did you give the demo a go and were there any problems then?)

I would also just add that we don't really know for sure if SSD's were a common link in the problems. No, we don't know what HDS have done as yet to get around the Trim command but this is not actually a fault as such and I know several people using SSD's with RB and, like me, none of them have encountered any problems. So, I'd happily take HDS to task for the failings in their support systems but I personally wouldn't be using SSD's and RB if I didn't feel confident in their ability to co-exist. That's not to say that there couldn't be conflicts as can be the case with just about any piece of hardware .

Graham

[runedog]

>>(@runedog - did you give the demo a go and were there any problems then?)<<

Actually, No, we did not give the demo a whirl and I suppose we should learn from this.

We expected, seeing this was a seasoned application (V9+) that it would be safe for review as we review software to help challenged PC users in their day-to-day PC activities.

We usually enquire about 'review copies' but, as above, we believed RBRX to be a very stable product and were excited about its capabilities so we purchased it.

A great pity...

[carfal]

runedog, while i appreciate that you have had issues with Rollback, to suggest that Rollback is NOT seasoned (sitting at V9) and that Rollback is not stable is not a fair comment IMO.

Your issues with HD errors are most likely stemming from the fact that your using a relatively new technology, being SSD's.

Rollback has only now, in the last release, stated that it's product is compatible with SSD's. Is it really a surprise that in fact there may be some issues still to iron out? As a software reviewer, you should know that the first edition is usually never perfect. This doesnt excuse HDS from their obligations to release a PC worthy product but no software company can truely give an iron clad guarantee that their product is bug free. As users, the best we can hope for is that HDS make the best effort as humanly possible to iron out KNOWN bugs before releasing to public. As Graham (Nexstar) has already testified, for him Rollback works flawlessly with his SSD's. Sadly in your (and aladins) case this is not so.

HDS support has left you guys wanting and that short coming is something that HDS should sort out with you professionally.

Like Graham has said in another post, I'm also not certain why your activation issues are not sorted out. My product ID's have always been reset within 24 hours. I can only speculate that your problems again stem from the fact that your running Rollback on a SSD.

Getting back to whether or not Rollback is "seasoned". It most definitely is. I've been using Rollback since V7. It has had its ups and downs no doubt but at v9 on a mainstream HD (excluding SSD's) Rollback is as rock solid as it can be. I dont deny that every now and then somebody queries the forum with an issue. Most times the conclusion is that the person has created the problem themselves from not understanding how Rollback works. I recall one user getting quite verbal about us suggesting that he was the cause of his own woes but you get that... you cant help everybody.

If you want to really review Rollback, I suggest you install it on a normal HD (I believe most of your readers are probably still using normal HD anyway) and i think you'll end up loving Rollback. If you want to warn your readers that Rollback in not ready for SSD's then no-one can blame you for saying so.

IMHO it would be a great disservice if your review on Rollback is based on your experiences with your SSD's.

[aladdin™]

Dear Carfal,

With due respect I don't agree with most of the things you have written above. Blind following is one thing, however critical and self criticism is a must for success.

1. A system drive and/or partition is about 60 GB, these days. SSDs are now out for more than three years, and they are in the third generation. A 64 GB SSD can be picked up for less $60 USD on sale and/or with rebate.

2. Graham has used one SSD with success, with my three SSDs and one SSD for Runedog, it makes a total of five SSDs. Thus, a failure rate of 80% with Rollback Rx.

3. We don't know how many more other people have reported their problems with SSDs, as most people don't use forum, so the failure rate might be much higher.

4. Horizon is a reactive company, and not a proactive company on the forefronts, with SSDs out for more than three years, third generation and cheap prices it is the future, not the regular HD.

5. I have not found Rollback Rx any better than CTM. CTM is a free product and thus, it doesn't have support and/or future development. Where as, Rollback Rx is a very expensive product with yearly maintenance charges. Both still have problems with snapshots filling your HD and then crashing your HD.

6. I don't want to get into discussion about CTM and Rollback Rx. Of course, with Rollback Rx being very expansive and with yearly maintenance charges, it should be better than CTM, a free product which is no longer developed any more. Thus, it would not be a fair comparison, nor a productive discussion.

7. With Rollback Rx installed, I still have to do imagining. Imaging is not very easy with Rollback Rx installed.

8. Shadow Protect again a very expensive product with no yearly maintenance charges, images each of my three systems between 3 to 10 minutes. If I do this weakly the most I can lose is one's week system being exposed. Which is not a big deal.

9. The other imaging programs are little slower than Shadow Protect, but much cheaper. IFW is for less than $30 on sale all the time, and it is legally allowed to be used on three home computers. Thus, a cost per computer is about $10.

10. I was sent a link for the old version of Rollback Rx which doesn't work on SSDs. I was really stressed for 10 complete days spending almost 14 hours a day to sort this out. Almost destroying my SSDs. Froggie came to my rescue. Till today, I am still waiting an acknowledgment from Horizon, let alone an apology for this. This doesn't say very much about the character of Horizon.

11. On about 30+ install, I did check while installing, if it is the current version, it came back and said yes. A definite bug in supposedly a very mature product. If this option had worked, I wouldn't have to suffer for complete 10 days, 14 hours a day and being very stressed. And, very grouchy to my family. Is Horizon going to correct this bug for future releases.

12. I have not found Horizon correcting many bugs reported on this forum, one such thing which comes to mind, is the "update" issue.

13. On 5th of this month I bought 3 licenses with Lifetime Update and Gold Support. I don't know what Gold Support means, but till right now my systems are not activated.

14. They told me they are trying to call me. I told them that I am not in the USA, about five days ago I gave them my contact numbers in Oman. Still yet to get a call and/or email from them.

15. Yes, I did get an email for me to call a number in North America. I told them it costs an arm and a leg to call from Oman to North America. Since, they wanted to contact me, they have my contact numbers.

I can go on and on, but the above is sufficient for right now. No hard feelings, my dear friend.

Best regards,

aladdin.

[runedog]

Hello Carfal,

While I appreciate your remarks, let me say, as a reviewer for CHALLENGED PC users little bugs are to be expected but, major crashes... well, a disabled or visually handicapped person with scant PC knowledge would have been totally rocked by the problems we encountered.

And, with the email from HD stating that it was our fault we could not get RBRX to work properly was just the icing on the cake.

[carfal]

Aladdin, i also respectfully , have to disagree.

Let me start by pointing out that i am not under any circumstances attempting to excuse the apparent poor support you've received from HDS or defend the inexplicable incorrect version that they originally linked you to. Compounded by the fact that upon installation it again failed to fetch you the latest version.


To answer some of your points

Originally Posted by aladdin™

1. A system drive and/or partition is about 60 GB, these days. SSDs are now out for more than three years, and they are in the third generation. A 64 GB SSD can be picked up for less $60 USD on sale and/or with rebate.

2. Graham has used one SSD with success, with my three SSDs and one SSD for Runedog, it makes a total of five SSDs. Thus, a failure rate of 80% with Rollback Rx.

3. We don't know how many more other people have reported their problems with SSDs, as most people don't use forum, so the failure rate might be much higher.

4. Horizon is a reactive company, and not a proactive company on the forefronts, with SSDs out for more than three years, third generation and cheap prices it is the future, not the regular HD.

Points 1,2,3,4
All four points are absolutely true. However i think you forgot the point i made.

Originally Posted by carfal

Rollback has only now, in the last release, stated that it's product is compatible with SSD's.

Until this last release,HDS have never claimed that Rollback will work with SSD's. But, now they have, so after a little more time to think about it I believe that perhaps it would be prudent for HDS to remove the new claim of SSD compatibility until further testing can be carried out.

POINT 5
The "issue" of filling up your HD is a symptom of a lack of knowledge of how Rollback works. Rollback does not work by magic. In order to keep a system state locked to a snapshot, Rollback must hold onto the "unique" data that belongs to each snapshot. This basic concept eludes many new users and usually results in a full HD unexpectedly.
3 simple rules
While Rollback is installed
1. Never run disk wipe utilities. Zeroing a sector is perceived as a change in data and Rollback WILL redirect the write and lock the whole sector to the current snapshot. Full HD is guaranteed.
2. Never run external defraggers. The moving around of files is again perceived as a change in data and Rollback WILL redirect each and every write to an empty sector. Full HD guaranteed.
3. Be aware when creating large files and then taking a snapshot. That large file is now locked in with that snapshot. Deleting the file AFTER taking the snapshot will not release the HD space because it still exists in the snapshot you just took. You must delete that snapshot as well before the space is released. This can get quite complicated when dealing with multiple files and/or snapshots. Full HD by stealth.

POINT 7

Hot "Imaging is not very easy with Rollback Rx installed." However imaging your current snapshot I believe is fairly straight forward. Froggie explains all of this very well.



POINT 10 onwards i believe i covered in my opening paragraph


Aladdin, i do understand how you feel and i hope im not coming across as a Rollback pusher. Thats not my intention.

Best Regards

carfal

[carfal]

@Runedog

It's hard to argue those points. I just wanted to make sure you were giving Rollback a chance.

Regards